Smokable Herbs and Harm Reduction with Lian Bruno

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Isn’t smoking bad for you? Yes…but the conversation around smokable herbs may be more nuanced than you think.

In this episode, I’m joined by herbalist and founder of Puff Herbals, Lian Bruno, for a grounded, thoughtful conversation about smokable herbs—especially mullein (Verbascum spp.). While many herbalists shy away from this topic, Lian approaches it through a lens of harm reduction, compassion, and what she calls “holistic hedonism.”

Lian explores why mullein has long been used in smoking blends, how formulation dramatically changes the smoking experience, and why all-or-nothing thinking can make conversations about smoking harder, not safer. This episode isn’t a blanket endorsement of smoking, nor is it a how-to guide. Instead, it’s an invitation into nuance: understanding energetics, honoring ritual, and supporting people exactly where they are.

During our conversation, Lian shares her recipe for Lung Lube, a syrup that offers both immediate relief and long-term support for lungs irritated by smoke or sickness. You can download your beautifully-illustrated recipe card from the section below.

By the end of this episode, you’ll know:

► Four reasons mullein is considered a classic smokable herb

► Why mullein should rarely be smoked alone (and what to pair it with)

► How smokable herbs can serve as a bridge for reducing nicotine or cannabis use

► How to formulate a smoking blend with intention, matching plant energetics to your desired effect

► Eighteen examples of smokable herbs—and the reasons you might include them in a smoking blend

► and so much more…

For those of you who don’t know her, Lian Bruno is a clinically-trained herbalist, holistic health educator, writer, and founder of Puff Herbals — a brand redefining smoking rituals with tobacco-free, cannabis-free herbal alternatives. With a background in ethnobotany, she blends science, storytelling, and subculture into smoking blends designed for modern rituals.

Rooted in harm reduction and what she calls holistic hedonism, Puff Herbals makes herbalism approachable for anyone looking to light up — from the sober-curious and wellness-obsessed to skeptics and smokers looking to quit or cut back.

Whether or not you ever work with smokable herbs, I hope this conversation encourages curiosity over judgment and reminds you that herbalism is ultimately about relationship — with plants, with our bodies, and with one another.

Click here to access the audio-only page.

-- TIMESTAMPS -- Smokable Herbs

• 0:25 - Intro to Lian Bruno + her plant path
• 05:15 - How Lian became interested in smokable herbs
• 11:25 - Why smoke herbs?
• 16:15 - Benefits of mullein for smoking
• 23:48 - Formulating smoke blends
• 30:34 - The importance of slowing down and being present
• 33:38 - Lung Lube: an After-Smoke Syrup recipe
• 40:02 - Herbs for harm reduction in smoking
• 44:46 - The making of Puff Herbals
• 58:10 - Lian’s other herbal projects
• 1:08:27 - How herbalism has surprised Lian
• 1:14:25 - Student spotlight
• 1:15:44 - Herbal tidbit

Get Your Free Recipe!

Lung Lube is a cooling, moistening syrup created to soothe and restore the respiratory system after smoking. Formulated to counter the hot, drying nature of smoke, it offers both immediate relief and long-term support for lungs irritated by smoke or sickness.

Ingredients:

• 7 grams dried mullein leaf
• 7 grams dried marshmallow leaf
• 7 grams dried peppermint leaf & flower
• 7 grams dried thyme leaf & flower
• 7 grams dried calendula flower
• 7 grams dried plantain leaf
• About 3/4 cup raw honey
• 3 cups water
• 2 eight-ounce glass bottles, or 4 four-ounce bottles

Directions:

1. Combine all herbs and water in a sauce pot.
2. Brew a strong infusion/decoction by slowly simmering the herbs in the water until the water content reduces by about half, which may take an hour or more. Stir occasionally and prevent herbs from sticking to the sides of the pot as the water reduces. Keep an eye on it and make sure the water doesn't evaporate too much - if it does, add more water.
3. Remove from heat and let cool slightly. While still warm, strain herbs through cheesecloth, fine sieve, or coffee filter into another pot or heat-safe container. Discard herbs.
4. Measure the remaining liquid and add an equal volume of raw honey. Add more honey if you want a thicker, sweeter syrup.
5. Stir until fully dissolved. If the mixture has become too cool for the honey to dissolve, cook on very low heat until honey is just combined.
6. Let cool and pour into a clean glass bottles. Label, date, and refrigerate.

Connect with Lian

• Website | PuffHerbals.com
• Instagram | @puff.herbals and @liantheherbalist

Transcript of the 'Smokable Herbs' Video

Welcome to the Herbs with Rosalee Podcast, a show exploring how herbs heal as medicine, as food, and through connecting with the living world around you. 

Well, smoking herbs is a topic that many herbalists will just avoid, often out of concern for safety, liability or even just mixed messaging, but people have been inhaling plants for thousands of years, including herbs like mullein. 

In this episode, I’m joined by Lian Bruno from Puff Herbals for a thoughtful, grounded conversation about smoking herbs through the lens of harm reduction. She’ll explore why mullein has been traditionally used for the lungs, where modern herbal conversations around smoke tend to fall short, and how all-or-nothing thinking can actually make these topics harder, not safer to navigate. This isn’t necessarily a “how to” episode, nor is it a flat, outright endorsement of smoking herbs. Instead, it’s really an invitation into nuance, understanding context, weighing risks, and just having more honest conversations about how people are working with plants. 

If you enjoy this episode, please give it a thumbs up so more plant lovers can find us, and be sure to stay tuned until the very end for your herbal tidbit.

Rosalee de la Forêt:

Welcome to the show, Lian! I’m absolutely thrilled to have you here. 

Lian Bruno:

Thank you so much for having me. I’m so excited. 

Rosalee de la Forêt:

Oh, yeah, me too. I had the pleasure of meeting you at Great Lakes Herb Faire. I’d heard about you before because our mutual friend, Mason Hutchison from HerbRally, has spoken highly about you, had a really great podcast episode with you, so I knew about you. You taught a class on—I can’t remember the title, but it was definitely about herbs—smoking herbs.  

Lian Bruno:

Yes. 

Rosalee de la Forêt:

And we went to that class. I was interested in going because I just knew so little about it and I wanted to expand my knowledge. Such a sweet class. We’re down there by the lake. Anyway, we’ll talk more about that, I’m sure. It was just wonderful to connect with you. We got to hang out at IHS too, seeing you there. It’s been lovely to connect with you in person and I’ve been really excited to have you on the show. 

Lian Bruno:

I am so excited to be here. Thank you for inviting me on. 

Rosalee de la Forêt:

Yeah, absolutely! Well, I always like to just ground ourselves in who are you and how did you get called into the plant path?

Lian Bruno:

Yes. My name is Lian Bruno. I am a clinically-trained herbalist. I’m the founder of Puff Herbals, offering tobacco-free and cannabis-free herbal smoking alternatives, and holistic support for smokers. I first got called into the plant path when I was very, very young. By the time I could use my hands for fine motor skills, my chore was weeding in our family vegetable garden. So, I got all these memories of being out in the dirt, being like, “Is this a weed or is this a vegetable?” and having to look at little details on the leaves to discern which ones to pull. Just always had this eye for detail and really honing in. My father has a degree in plant physiology. He’d always be teaching me about plants. We’d always walk around town and he’d be like, “Oh, look, this is wormwood,” growing along the side of the sidewalk. “Here’s how you can tell—let’s touch it. The underside, it’s all silvery on the underside.” There would be a couple of mulberry trees growing in town, so we’d bring buckets and pick them. A very more urban, not like inner city, but a city for sure. And then in the summers I would go away to sleepaway camps and be out in the woods learning about fishing and outdoorsy stuff. I was very “in nature” and also into nature. 

And then, I guess I—it was like a week before I went to undergrad, to college—I had never smoked or drank anything and I said to my friends, “Guys,”—like a week before, I was like, “Guys, I’ve—I’ve never gotten drunk or high. Will you do this with me before I go to college, so I’m not just like this—this square, loser, who doesn’t know anything.” So, yeah, I smoked weed with them and I was just like—you know, when you’re young and you get high for the first time, you’re like, “Oh, wow!” 

I went to Ithaca College, which is a very—Ithaca is a very—Mason and I were talking about this—where is the most—the most hippie places in America. I was like, “You got to go to Ithaca.” So, yeah. Got very into cannabis there. It was a couple of years after graduating that I started going to herbalism school. I did—did a clinical herbalism apprenticeship and that was in-person, three years at CommonWealth Holistic Herbalism. It was in the Boston area now. They are no longer there. They’re just online now, but that was really great because we’d—we’re talking about different herbs and passing the tincture around, so we can taste it. We would have field days out by the river, looking at the plants growing and stuff, and the—the whole time still smoking weed—a good amount. It was during the second year where we were going over client case studies and—wherein one of the—my herbal teachers had a client who was trying to quit smoking cigarettes among other things. He custom-formulated a smoking blend just for this client to help her get off of smoking cigarettes. This is halfway in and it had never really come up until that point that a lot of herbs were smokable. I was like, “Wait, wait!” and just started mixing them in. Then it just really kind of all snowballed from there, in terms of getting into smokable herbs. It definitely had this—this clinical kind of foundation that had been applied into this smokable niche path. 

Rosalee de la Forêt:

That’s lovely. I remember from the class, you were talking about how kind of offering people another way to do something that’s ritualistic and familiar to them, but maybe they want to be smoking less cannabis or less nicotine, or whether that’s like decreasing the amount or stopping all together, and how this is like this bridge for folks. 

Lian Bruno:

Yes, yeah. When I was in—doing my apprenticeship, I was making all these different herbal preparations. I would have these holiday time, December time open houses where I would invite people over and have mulled cider or mulled wine, and then I would have a little table with all these little products that I would make and sell to my friends. The first couple didn’t have any smoking blends, and then I just—and people—my friends, they were very—and still are very liberally-minded people—even with herbalism, I was kind of surprised at how skeptical they were. And then slowly bringing up that certain herbs are smokable, or that I had made a smoking blend, then they were very intrigued and interested. Even—I noticed even my friends who weren’t really big weed smokers or even like tobacco smokers at all, were like, “Can I try it?” They were curious. I was like—this is really interesting that it’s like—because it’s in this very familiar form that people know and not necessarily like a little bottle of some liquid, then they’re like, “What’s this? How do I take it? For how long? I don’t think I feel anything,” but they were interested and then they could feel the effects immediately. And then they were—and then they were like, “Maybe I will try that tincture, actually, now that I’m kind of convinced.” I did have some friends who were—they would bring a pack of regular cigarettes out, drinking, and then be like, “I would like so much rather have this,” or “I mixed some of that in with my weed last night and I noticed I was—didn’t feel as tense,” or as anxious or as paranoid. That was my—that was my big takeaway as well, and then like, oh, it’s really nice that there is—there are other options. It’s not just tobacco and cannabis. 

Rosalee de la Forêt:

It seems increasingly important just as the states that are legalizing cannabis and how just prolific cannabis is becoming, that there is other options out there for folks and- 

Lian Bruno:

Especially now, with all these bans happening state level, and this hemp ban which—I don’t know. It’s—I got out of the hemp game. I—I kind of dabbled in it for a bit, but—yeah, I—I do get a lot of people reaching out, being like, “Hey, I can’t even smoke hemp because it’s a cannabinoid.” It will pop on a test or it will trigger this—this kind of—this illness that’s going around with chronic cannabis disease, which is a whole other topic. People that are—I have so often heard, “Smoke weed to chill out and relax,” that’s not really the case for a lot of people. More and more me, personally, as I get older. Some people are surprised just how relaxing and how much herbs can really hit the spot—that same spot. 

Rosalee de la Forêt:

Let’s talk about that a little bit. Why would somebody choose to smoke herbs?

Lian Bruno:

Someone might choose to smoke herbs if—I guess, one, if they are addicted to tobacco and they’re trying to quit. Two, they’re addicted to cannabis and are trying to quit, which, some people are like, “You can’t be addicted to cannabis.” I think you certainly can. Three, you maybe are a social smoker or you like to bum one or several when you go out and have a couple of drinks, and then maybe don’t really like how that feels in your body but it’s just like this social catalyst and conversation starter. Maybe it’s a little bit of like a social crutch for you if like you’re a bit anxious. It’s kind of something—it’s a socially acceptable way to strike up a conversation with somebody that you don’t know. Or maybe you just like the feeling of smoking something occasionally. It could be like a meditation tool, like if you’re just out on your porch, you’re flicking the lighter. You’re watching it burn. You’re watching the smoke eddy away. It’s just like a nice little break. It doesn’t need to be this excessive thing that you do. It can—it can just be like a nice little treat here and there. 

Rosalee de la Forêt:

Like in the class that I took with you, you were very quick to be like, “I’m not recommending that you start smoking.” That was not your—which was cool to hear from somebody who is the founder of Puff Herbals and making smoking blends that you weren’t necessarily—you weren’t pushing it, but also-

Lian Bruno:

Yeah. I always tell people—go ahead. 

Rosalee de la Forêt:

That you’re—you’re really rooted in harm reduction, but I also love this—what do you call it? Herbal hedonism? 

Lian Bruno:

Holistic hedonism. 

Rosalee de la Forêt:

Holistic, yeah, holistic hedonism. 

Lian Bruno:

Yes, yes, yes. I always tell people if you don’t smoke, don’t start. It’s very easy to romanticize smoking. Just the way I was talking about, “Oh, the smoke and watching it burn,” it’s like, yeah, it is nice, but if you don’t already enjoy smoking, then I don’t want you to hear this or go on the website and be like, “Oh, I should start smoking.” It’s like—it’s kind of—if you already have that inclination or history of wanting something or if you are trying to get off of other things, then smoking herbs can be really great for you. But smoking anything, like burning plant—combusting plant matter and inhaling into your lungs is never going to be healthy no matter what you are combusting. So, I always tell people if you don’t smoke, don’t start. But if you do want to smoke, and let’s be real: people are going to do what they want to do. It’s like you could tell college kids not to have sex, but they are still going to, and so you give them condoms, right? Okay, if you are going to smoke, let’s get some mullein in there. Let’s maybe be a bit more mindful of how much and how often we’re partaking. That’s just kind of the idea behind holistic hedonism. It’s like you can—you can indulge in a little pleasurable treat, but maybe let’s try to keep it as a treat?

Rosalee de la Forêt:

Hey, there. Just a quick note: if you’d like to hear from me in a more personal way, I’d love to have you in my free text community. I send a couple of texts every week, things like behind-the-scenes updates, herbal thoughts that I’m chewing on, and little sparks of joy I don’t always share anywhere else. To join, just text the word ROOT to 1-509-383-8398, and if you ever want to break up, no hard feelings. Just text STOP to the same number, and you’ll be opted-out immediately. My goal is to make it so juicy and so fun that you look forward to getting my texts each week. Okay, now, back to the show.

Yeah, so, I don’t know if this is quantifiable, Lian, but like mullein, for example, classic herb. That’s like the most well-known herb for smoking. Is there any benefit to smoking it? 

Lian Bruno:

Yes.

Rosalee de la Forêt:

I know—I know that there is, but—so let me ask you a different question. Say, if you burn plants, combust plants, breathe that into your lungs, inherently, there’s an unhealthy factor. There’s some sort of burden we’re putting on the lungs in that situation. Is it possible to be like, “Oh, but there’s also a benefit”? How do we measure that? Because, for example, you have a—a relaxing herbal smoke blend that clearly promotes relaxation, so there is some medicinal benefit from this situation as well. 

Lian Bruno:

Yes, so I would say the answer to that is “Yes, with a lot of caveats.” Mullein is a—everyone knows about it or maybe don’t, but mullein is this great smokable herb. It’s considered a great smokable for three main reasons. One, is that it’s a moistening expectorant. What that means—smoking, if you think about—you’re lighting plants on fire and then you’re inhaling the smoke, that is energetically very hot and dry. Even if you don’t know what herbal energetics of herbs and different—the energetics of different conditions, you do know that fire and smoke are hot and dry. So, anything that we can do to bring that hot and dry state or action into balance with moist and cool herbs or preparations, then the more comfortable we’re going to feel because in general, the more you are pushed toward one end of the spectrum, like super, super hot, if you can add in some coolness and you come back toward the center, you’re going to feel more comfortable here in the center. 

Mullein is both cooling and moistening, great demulcent plant. Specifically, it induces the mucous membranes in your lungs to release more fluid, more mucus, and expectorant—moistening expectorant. “Expectorant” means to expel and cough stuff up and out of the lungs. If you think about a bowl of weed and all that black stuff that accumulates in a bong—or anything you smoke, there’s going to be this tar and crud that you will inhale some of. Mullein, being a moistening expectorant, it induces your mucous membranes to get juicy and get flowing, if you will. 

If you think about a dirty dish, like you seared something really hot and there’s a lot of caked on black stuff, in order to get that off more easily, you would soak it first. The water, it allows to lift off more easily. The same kind of thing is happening in your lungs with the mucus. It’s like, okay, the tar and the crud is getting stuck in and it’s on there. The mucus will health—help lift it off, and then the expectoration is then when you cough, it’s more of a productive cough and that’s getting that stuff up and out. If you cough, you might look in the tissue, there might be a little bit of black stuff that comes out, which is good because you don’t want it in there. You want to get it out. That’s the first thing—moistening expectorant. 

Two, it’s a nervous sedative. It helps calm your nerves. It helps you feel less anxious, which is great, especially for smokers because one of the biggest reasons why people reach for a cigarette, or are like, “I need a smoke,” is because they feel anxious or they’re trying to relieve tension. Nicotine, maybe in the moment you’re satisfying the craving so you feel calmer because you’re satisfying the craving, but it’s—it’s only getting you more revved up, actually. Mullein can actually help you to be calm and chill. So, that’s two. 

Three, it’s also a respiratory relaxant. It helps your airways to just relax and calm down, and that in turn, allows you to breathe more slowly and deeply, and that in and of itself, can allow you to feel more calm and less anxious because when your airways are calm, it’s like you’re taking those big, deep stomach breaths down, rather than high up in the chest—like short ones. Even—even if it wasn’t a nervous sedative, the relaxation of the airways would help you relax, so it’s like a synergistic kind of effect there, if you will.

And then four, I guess, is also it just smokes really well. It’s the cool, damp nature energetically. It’s very fluffy. I’m talking about just the leaf. Get the stems out, get the seeds out. The leaf is very fluffy. If you fluff it up like this and if you put other herbs in there, maybe some rose petals, for instance, or little lavender buds or mint perhaps, it helps to keep all of those other herbs stuck in there and be like a cohesive blend. That’s really great.

I will say though, mullein—so, when smoking, you also want to have herbs in there that add body. Mullein, on its own, does not have much body to it, so sometimes people will read or hear about mullein being great for smoking and they’ll just smoke it on its own and it feels very, very harsh. It’s like it’s cutting through. It makes you want to cough instantly, and so then people are confused like, “I heard that this is really good for your lungs. Why is it not good?” It just doesn’t have great body, so you always want to have it in a smoking blend and that will give you all the benefits of it, but on its own, it just—it won’t be particularly pleasant. 

Rosalee de la Forêt:

Thank you for sharing those four points. The first three really illustrate the harm reduction model of just—this is something that you can work with to support your lungs through the smoking process. I appreciate that and really just interesting to see how mullein’s wonderful gifts that herbalists often talk about in tea form, for example, are showing up in the smoking form as well so it’s lovely. 

I’m glad you started to talk about formulation because that was something that—that was probably the biggest thing that stood out for me in the class with you. I have this profound respect for you and for this ability to formulate because there’s so much like when you’re making a tea, there is so many things to think about, probably similar things like how do the herbs play together, what’s your intention for the recipe, how do they brew together. We don’t necessarily often put petals with barks in the same brew because they need different things. When you began to speak about that formulating for a smoke blend, I thought that was really fascinating. You just touched upon it here. We can’t go all in on mullein because it causes coughing. I wonder if you would just elaborate on that a little bit more because I think it’s just fascinating all that goes into thinking about a smoking blend. 

Lian Bruno:

I touched on body and how mullein doesn’t really have it. Body is—is really kind of—so all smoking blends start from a base—a base blend. There are certain herbs that are considered a good smoking blend base. These are herbs that have body. Body can be achieved by either astringent herbs or herbs that retain a lot of their oil content once dried. Astringent herbs like raspberry leaf—raspberry is a great smoking blend base. If you think about a white—a sweet white wine versus a dry red, everyone will be like the red has way more body, and that’s because of the tannins. It constricts the—the tissue. The mucous membranes will tighten up. The same thing is going on with astringent herbs like raspberry leaf in a smoking blend, so you always want to have a base. Some other base—base herbs like damiana, for instance, is not astringent but it does retain a good amount of its oil content when it’s dried. That can also give body. Mullein doesn’t have either of those things, so that’s why as part of your base—you can just have a base of raspberry leaf or damiana, for instance, but the base itself can be formulated. I think mullein should always be in that base formulation. Then from the base—some other good—good base herbs are mugwort, cannabis, obviously. Those are probably the best. Then from there, you can add flavors like rose. Rose is also astringent. You have like a double whammy there. Lavender, mint, peppermint is fantastic, especially if you like smoking menthol cigarettes. In addition to offering or providing flavor, they also have their own effects too. You can think like, “Just as I would put a tea blend together at night or formulate a tincture, thinking about the actions, the energetics as well.” Oh, marshmallow leaf—I didn’t even talk about that. The marshmallow leaf, again, another great base herb, very cooling, demulcent, very moistening plant. So, mullein and marshmallow leaf together, fantastic. They’re also fluffy, which is good. And then you can add in your supportive herbs that—it’s kind of similar to the flavors maybe wouldn’t smoke great on their own, like a base would. Just a pinch can help you target your smoke and your evening, for instance, or how you want to feel, or things you want to address. Sage is a great one; also great flavor, but great for—specifically, for overwhelm. Overwhelm is a big reason why, again, people are like, “I need to smoke. I need to step aside. I can’t.” Or passionflower doesn’t really have much of a flavor when smoked on its own, but just a pinch in there can really help you nod off to sleep easily and stay asleep, and not be ruminating over stuff at night. 

I could go on and on about—about different herbs, but that’s like the general formula, is a base which should constitute—it could be anything up to like 75% of the blend, really that much, and then flavor, and then the—the supports as well. Some people like more flavor and some people don’t like as much. It’s fun to play around. In the class—and I always—I always say this in all my classes. I write the percentages on the—on the handout and they don’t add up to 100% on purpose. I’m like, yeah, you might notice they don’t add up to a hundred because everyone has different tastes and preferences. It’s really just a matter of what you like. 

Rosalee de la Forêt:

That’s been very fascinating for me to learn about this. Again, your class was so interesting learning about formulation from a different perspective. You talked about—now, you’ve talked about kind of therapeutics and everything, but part of that is how it burns and you gave a lot of information about how to create something that burns well. I am not a smoker, but I did not take your advice. I was curious and so—also, your branding is so awesome. 

Lian Bruno:

Oh, thank you.  

Rosalee de la Forêt:

There’s something just very—it’s, yeah, it’s just beautiful. I was like, “Okay, I have to try these,” and maybe because of past experience, I thought I’ll take a puff and I’ll start coughing because I’m not a smoker, and I did not! They were so smooth and tasted good, and everything. That was a fun thing to be just like, “Oh, wow! This is just so well done in terms of all of that-

Lian Bruno:

Oh, thank you.  

Rosalee de la Forêt:

Even for a nonsmoker like me. It was just instantly like, “This really works well!” 

Lian Bruno:

Yes, and that is—so, in addition to formulating a blend, so as to avoid that harsh coughing, feeling like you want to cough, there’s also how are you smoking too. I just recently—maybe it was a few months ago now—but one of my most recent blog posts on my website is how to smoke, because it’s one thing to—to, “Okay, I got my demulcents in there. I got my mullein. I’m ready to go,” but if you’re just inhaling way too much too fast, then that can still make you cough no matter how good the formula is—the blend is. That’s also something I really like to promote with the brand, “puff into the present moment” is the tag line and the name of the zine that I wrote because I really—in order to—I think smoking should be about being present and like, “I’m going to inhale very slowly. I’m not going to inhale more than I need. I’m going to hold it for a second, maybe not even, and then let it go out.” It’s comfortable and it’s relaxed. It’s not like, “Oh, I only have five minutes. I just need to suck this cigarette down.” That might be your—maybe you only have five minutes, but I think the more that we can just take—give ourselves ten—even ten minutes, nowadays—and not look at your phone and just be mindful of what you’re doing. That in part with the blend is actually going to make you relaxed and chill.

Rosalee de la Forêt:

They always say that about tea too, right? People are like, “I don’t have time to make tea,” and then it’s like if you don’t have time to make and enjoy tea, then you probably need to make and enjoy tea more than anyone else.

Lian Bruno:

Then you need tea. Yes, exactly and that’s why 100% I was going to say it’s part of the prescription. 

Rosalee de la Forêt:

Yeah, yeah. 

Hey, friends. It’s Rosalee. If you’ve been nourished by this podcast, if it has helped you feel more connected to the plants or more grounded in your own herbal path, then I’d love to invite you to join the Herbs with Rosalee Podcast Circle. This special membership helps make the podcast possible. It supports everything we do behind the scenes, and it gives you a chance to go even deeper with the content that you love. Inside the circle, you’ll get exclusive herbal resources, live classes each season with some of my favorite herbal teachers, and a private space to connect with fellow plant lovers. It’s where the heart of our herbal community continues to grow. To learn more and join us, visit HerbalPodcastCircle.com. Your support means the world and it helps this podcast continue to bloom.

Again, I’m fascinated to hear about mullein leaf and just how one works with that, the benefits, the harm reduction, and also benefits of the smoking blend. You’ve also shared a syrup recipe with us for helping people who might smoke regularly. I’m—yeah, I would love to just talk to you about this recipe and who might benefit from it as well. I know we got mullein in there, as well as some other lovely herbs. 

Lian Bruno:

My recipe is a herbal syrup called “Lung Lube.” 

Rosalee de la Forêt:

Great name.

Lian Bruno:

Thank you. When I was in my apprenticeship, syrups were my favorite medicine to make. I just—I love them so much. The idea with lung lube as—or just any kind of—I call it “after smoke syrup.” If you think about, again, back to smoking is very hot and dry, so it can be harsh on the throat. It can make you want to cough. It’s very drying to the respiratory system. The syrup, you can make a cooling, moistening syrup, that in addition to having cooling, moistening herbs in the blend itself, a nice syrup that can coat the throat and provide immediate cooling relief as like a smoking digestif, if you will. This recipe in particular, it can provide acute immediate relief, but it’s also going to be good for regular smokers to support respiratory health in the long-term. There’s mullein in there, which we’ve already touched upon. In addition to adding mullein to your smoke, tea and tincture, any consumable form is going to be fantastic as well even in an herbal steam, like over the pot with a towel. There’s thyme in there. I love thyme. I love the flavor. It’s very—it’s a—a nice antimicrobial. Smokers, especially long-term smokers, can have this racking, kind of unrelenting cough that’s very hot and dry. That type of cough is going to be, as far as I understand, more prone to infection—respiratory infection like a wet, phlegmy cough. I’m not 100% on that, but antimicrobial is great. Also, thyme has a lot of those volatile oils. It’s going to help to open up the airways and be relieving in that sense. There’s calendula in there. Calendula is a fat—fantastic anti-inflammatory, also demulcent. Plantain, the Band-Aid plant, another cooling, soothing, helps to—sometimes when a cough is very hot and dry, it can feel like every time you cough, it hurts. There are like these little cuts and plantain can help patch those up. What else is in there? Marshmallow leaf, again, as we—we talked about, very cooling demulcent herb. And then—what am I missing here? Is there another one? 

Rosalee de la Forêt:

Peppermint?

Lian Bruno:

Peppermint, yes. 

Rosalee de la Forêt:

Did you mention pepper-

Lian Bruno:

Yes. Peppermint--the cooling sensation is going to be very relieving in the moment, especially, say like, if you’re inhaling in one hand and then you have your syrup in the other. And then raw honey. I love honey in a syrup. You could also do, if you’re vegan and don’t want honey, you could also put some maple syrup in there. I’ve never made syrup with a glycerin. I don’t particularly really like the flavor of that, but—or you could just use sugar, like white sugar, honestly, but the honey will have some antimicrobial effects as well. It’s also very helpful coating—coating the throat, again. Yeah, I love the syrup. 

Rosalee de la Forêt:

I could see this is lovely just as a spoonful. Oh, sorry. 

Lian Bruno:

As a what?

Rosalee de la Forêt:

I love the idea of this as a spoonful. I could also see putting a little bit in sparkling water too. That would be really delicious. 

Lian Bruno:

Yes. I—I like—I love syrup so much. I feel like for the most part, I see a lot of warming syrups, which are also great, but I was like, what if a cool—a really cooling syrup? I was like, that’s interesting. Ideally, I would like to have marshmallow root in there, but you want a cold infusion of that, and then I was like, “I could do this,” but it’s—it’s getting a little complicated at that point. Something to keep in mind here if you’re going to make this syrup, is that mullein has a lot of these little hairs on the leaves that can be irritating. This is another question that will come up is, “I read that mullein was great for respiratory—respiratory health and I made a tea of it. I drank it and it was so irritating to the throat. What gives?” That’s because of these little hairs that do need to be strained. Sometimes a tea strainer might not be enough. If you have a cheesecloth or a coffee filter, then that can help to remove those little irritating hairs. 

Rosalee de la Forêt:

It’s interesting when you smoke mullein that becomes irrelevant. It’s just an interesting thing [crosstalk]

Lian Bruno:

I know. 

Rosalee de la Forêt:

Smoking kind of thing. 

Lian Bruno:

Right. 

Rosalee de la Forêt:

I—I really love your , Lian, of harm reduction. I keep thinking of my dad, actually. He’s now since passed. He was a smoker. I think I was in my younger years, a little judgy and just more like, “You shouldn’t smoke,” is the conversation. I really dislike the smell of the cigarettes—nicotine cigarettes. I didn’t like to be around it. I was a little holier-than-thou with him, but the thing is he wasn’t going to stop. He didn’t want to stop. That was his life. That was what he was doing. I wish that I had had this because he would have been—he loved that I was an herbalist. He loved supporting me. He loved herbs and I think he would have really loved this. I could see—maybe he would have smoked less if he’d had an opportunity to smoke herbal cigarettes, but also, just like you said, harm reduction in terms of supporting him because that was the choice he was going to make, and so instead of just like an “either or.” I really like that approach, in general. Wish I was less judgy in my younger years, but that tends—that tends to happen. 

Lian Bruno:

Yeah, and like—I mean, there is a stigma. Especially, for a loved one, you’d like—you might feel more compelled to be like, “Dad, what are you doing?” than a stranger. So, I get it. I think we’ve all felt that way toward our loved ones where we know what they’re doing isn’t the best for them, but they’re their own person, and accept them. I think, especially having this clinical background, it’s like there are so many types of people out there. Just because something to you is so common sense, it doesn’t mean that it is for them. I think meeting people where they are and it’s one thing to say “Don’t smoke,” but like you said, that he—that was the choice that he made. He just liked it and he wasn’t going to stop, so it’s like, “Okay, how can we replace”—or just add in. Maybe he—he smokes five less cigarettes because there are mulleins or something. 

Rosalee de la Forêt:

As you keep mentioning too just from a clinical perspective, this is a fabulous tool for the clinical tool box for somebody who—who like my dad is not interested, but also still—but you can still choose to smoke nicotine or whatever, and/or cannabis, and want to support your lung health. That’s not either/or even though that kind of seems like. Obviously, one is not necessarily health-supportive in that way but you mentioned both and harm reduction. It’s a really good way to just support folks. 

Lian Bruno:

Right, and depending on the person, I found sometimes you can give too much information, and then their eyes glaze over and they’re like, “You lost me.” Sometimes it could just be like, “You could add in this—it’s like a peppermint. It’s like a natural menthol.” They’re like, “Oh, interesting! Tell me more,” and that can be like the way in. 

Rosalee de la Forêt:

Kind of like you mentioned with your friends. For some people, it was just a way into herbalism even that they became more curious about other forms once they kind of got in on this familiar form to them. 

Lian Bruno:

Right. You know, people that have been a cigarette smoker for 20 years or however many years. Maybe they wouldn’t have had any introduction to herbalism otherwise. That can be like a way in. Even if—even if not, I don’t think anyone is unworthy of care and help. They may have their—their attitudes toward different things, but they’re still a person at the end of the day, and maybe this is all they ever knew to relax. That’s all they ever saw growing up. Yeah, it can—it’s—I’m trying—as I get older, I’m like—I’m I really just trying to not be as judgmental. Whenever I see it, I’m just like, “Don’t!” You don’t know. Just don’t be like that. 

Rosalee de la Forêt:

Yeah, yeah, I hear you. I hear you. It also is just, yeah, more peaceful way forward for ourselves, as well. 

Lian Bruno:

Yeah. 

Rosalee de la Forêt:

Lian, I’m curious about what it was like to start Puff Herbals. If you don’t—I didn’t mention that we would talk about this, but I just think it’s fascinating in that you have such a beautiful product. Obviously, so much has gone into it. Like your filters, for example, your branding—I’m curious about it all. How did that develop? Because I’m—I just imagine you had no idea how to make an herbal cigarette, like the actual product in form. The branding is just so spot on and beautiful.

Lian Bruno:

Thank you. 

Rosalee de la Forêt:

I’m just curious what that journey has been like for you. 

Lian Bruno:

Yeah, so it’s been an interesting—it’s been six and a half years now since I founded Puff Herbals officially, but I first started selling herbal cigarettes in 2016, actually. So, coming up on ten years is just crazy. I was still in my—I was in my final year of herb school. It just started coming up more and more in class about smokeable herbs. I obviously had an—a keen interest in it. In our third year, we were doing a clinical rotation and then also Katya and Ryn were just helping us with our—our goals. Our one, three and five-year goals of how we wanted to be an herbalist out in the world. I remember I wrote two different five-year goals. One version was having a little space and having a clinical practice, and the other one was I wrote down a niche product brand. I wrote down “gummies or smokeables.” The seed was always kind of there. I’ve talked about this on a number of other podcasts and on the site and everything. During the third year Katya and Ryn had an extra long table at Herb Stop, which is this little conference in—it’s not little. This conference—local conference in Sommerville Massachusetts. They didn’t need all that space, so a friend and I just showed up with some loose cigs—herbal cigs in a box. They were 50 cents each, and there was this line at the door. I was like, “Okay, there’s—there’s something here.” I liked how it was a little, mini consult because I ask people, “What do you smoke? When do you smoke? Why do you smoke it? What do you like about it?” and then I could kind of guide them from there. I did that unofficially for a year and a half, just like selling at the markets, but not really building a brand, although I wanted to the whole time. 

And then, I decided to launch Puff Herbals in—launched it in July 2019, and then a month before, my husband was like, “Hey, I just got a job offer in London.” He wouldn’t have been able to stay in the US because he—his visa was running out, so we moved there. I—I was doing it as a side thing. I was—I still had a full-time job, and then all of a sudden, I was in the UK and then COVID hit, and then they paused my National Insurance number processing. I couldn’t find a job. It was full lock down. I couldn’t get any public assistance being an immigrant there, so all I had was Puff Herbals. I was like—and then my brother, and then ended up being my dad, were shipping everything out of the house in Massachusetts. I was like, “Okay, this is all—this is all I have right now to make money,” so I just started working on it full-time during COVID, and yeah, It’s—it’s been interesting. I feel like there’s so many regulatory and terms of service on different platforms, like restrictions that I wasn’t aware of, and so it’s kind of I’m realizing now, I chose this hard mode product to be in business, which maybe if I knew that, I wouldn’t have done it, but I guess ignorance worked in my favor back then. I just figured it out. It was only until—not until October of last year, 2025, that I was able to bring back all of my original products with a third party manufacturer. It was me, my brother, my dad, and then me again for many years, making everything by hand. 

Rosalee de la Forêt:

Wow!

Lian Bruno:

All the binding, the sifting. Talk about mullein—I love it, but it’s—from a processing point of view, it’s so annoying because it’s so—the fluffiness means it’s so hard to get the stems out through like a sifter. I was up until—a year and a half ago, I was sifting all the mullein by hand. I—I feel very fortunate that a manufacturer reached out to me, actually, right when I was at the breaking point. 

Rosalee de la Forêt:

Wow!

Lian Bruno:

It turned out to be fantastic. They really helped me professionalize, like having that foil lining on the inside like regular cigarettes do. For many years, we were—just had this two—we’d buy the empty cigarette tubes. The filter and then the paper tube was empty and then we have this kind of injection—injection machine that would inject the herbs in.

Rosalee de la Forêt:

Wow.

Lian Bruno:

But, so-

Rosalee de la Forêt:

Sounds like pretty delicate process, like that paper is not thick.

Lian Bruno:

Yeah, then sometimes—it’s like a stem—we missed a stem and it ripped the whole—the whole paper and then we got the—“Oh, the machine jammed,” “This one is too dense. This one is not dense enough.” Doing it one at a time. Even working with this—this manufacturer now, which they are great. Some we’ve been finding—some are too dense. They’re not pulling correctly, so we need to adjust it.  It’s this constant iterating, actually. It’s not a hard thing to start, but then to actually get it right and have it come out really well is a lot of finesse and iteration. Yeah.

Rosalee de la Forêt:

Well, it’s a beautiful product. We keep saying, a wonderful harm reduction product. I’m sure it supports a lot of people in their process, whatever their goals are. I also just really love that you found this niche within herbalism. Something that—one of my pet peeves, actually, is when people say something along the lines of, “There’s too many herbalists” or something along those lines and I don’t believe that-

Lian Bruno:

Really? 

Rosalee de la Forêt:

-at all. 

Lian Bruno:

Wow. I’ve never heard that. 

Rosalee de la Forêt:

Oh, really, no? It’s gotten to be a common thing, people say “Oh there’s too—too many herbalists, too many clinicians, too many things going on.” Or people will feel like, “How am I going to be an herbalist? There’s already so many people out there.” You found this through your own interests, your own niche. Just from your story, you obviously really fought for it too, just the persistence that you needed in order to formulate properly and manufacture properly, and everything. That’s a really cool story, I think, for anybody out there who’s like, “How am I going to be an herbalist?” Oh, there are so many ways. [crosstalk] 

Lian Bruno:

And even like—for anyone listening, because I struggled with this too. I was like, “Oh, someone else is already doing it,” but it’s like, “Well, they’re not me.” Maybe they’re—they’re going hard on use-this-to-quit-smoking, and then not talking about the ritual aspect at all, and then other people are only about the ritual aspects. Maybe some people are more—you know there’s just so many different approaches and positionings to take. It doesn’t—it’s easy to be discouraged, I think, to feel like it’s saturated out there. This is something that—I don’t know. I think if you feel called to it. You have your own voice and point of view. It’s tough though, for sure. This is something like—I feel like I’m the same—to be fair, I’m six and a half, really ten years in, honestly, all in all, and so I think it’s easy for me now to have this grounded approach and feel calm about it and secure. But I got to tell you the first three years of Puff Herbals, it was not really that enjoyable just trying to get your footing and there’s so much to learn. I just remember the highs were so high and the lows were so low. Nowadays, it’s kind of just a lot more level, which—I remember I was in this coaching group, this botanical business coaching group. The—the coach was like, “Can I interview you for the—the website?” She was like, “What does success mean to you?” I—I remember I was like, “I don’t—I got to be honest. I don’t feel successful right now.” I think, to me, that was just feel—success to me would be like I could stop work at the end of the day and just not continue to think about work. I feel like I’m only just getting there, which—I don’t—but maybe that’s just my personality.

Rosalee de la Forêt:

It’s a good thing we have an herb for that, which probably—blue vervain, which I keep over here. 

Lian Bruno:

I’m such a blue vervain person. 

Rosalee de la Forêt:

Thank you for sharing that story, just how that process has been. I’m sure that’s—it’s always good to hear the story what it actually takes and what someone’s story has been and process has been, knowing that there were hard times and you kept going. Always inspirational, appreciate that as well. Thank you for sharing your Lung Lube recipe with us. For anyone who wants to download their own recipe, you can get the link for that above this transcript.  Thank you for that, as well. Before we go on, is there anything else that you wanted to mention—I don’t know—about mullein or smoking blends. No pressure on that. Just want to give you an opportunity. 

Lian Bruno:

I would say maybe if you’re listening to this and if you feel any kind of way about smoking, I would just encourage you if you view it still negatively, just—just—I don’t know. Everyone kind of has their own thing that they like. Maybe for you, it’s eating half a pint of ice cream at night. It’s like, that’s not good for you, but you still do it and it feels good. Maybe you don’t do it everyday or maybe you do have a little ice cream everyday. Some people maybe just have a puff of a cigarette at night. We all have our thing. We all—we all have—I think we all need to have a thing that, obviously, was like, yeah, it would be great if you didn’t do it at all, but once or twice a week, three or four times a week, is it really that bad? Maybe—maybe not. 

Rosalee de la Forêt:

I like that. We’ll leave it up to the individual, but yeah, there’s the whole 80/20 rule. Letting go of purity and like we said, judgment as well. I wish I had let go of that from an earlier age and had been—I just—I also think that—going back to my dad, it would have been a great moment to connect on something. I think he would have really liked it. Thank you for sharing all of that. You mentioned you had a zine and I’m curious to hear more about that. 

Lian Bruno:

I do have a zine, I’ve got it right here. I know it’s backwards. It’s called Puff Into the Present Moment: Crafting Herbal Smoking Blends to Ease Anxiety. It’s crazy right before this, I don’t know if I want to expose you, but you said, “What’s the project you’re excited about?” and at the time, I was like I don’t really have anything, so I put that. I wrote that in 2020 during COVID, and then I was like that’s going to be five—six years ago now this year. So, I have a zine. It’s 30 pages. It’s a great little read, a little reference book. It’s on my site. It’s in some bookshops, trying to get into more. In terms of other projects I am excited about-

Rosalee de la Forêt:

Hold on. Before we move on the zine, it’s like a guide to making your own herbal blends and formulation. 

Lian Bruno:

It’s specifically talking about anxiety and the way that anxiety manifests both physically and mentally. It outlines the different physical and mental manifestations. It could be hunched shoulders or maybe feeling like you have this knot in your stomach. There are all these different ways that anxiety can manifest that maybe you don’t register as a symptom of anxiety. Anxiety is—I’ve found during this—being in this business for this long, is the #1 reason why people reach for a smoke or seek out a smoke of anything. Kind of, again, about the formulation—how can we really target it specifically for you and why you want to smoke? Rather than reaching for, say, just cannabis in all instances, when maybe it’s not actually appropriate for how you’re feeling in that moment. Are you feeling very down in the dumps and kind of a bit stagnant in your life? Cannabis, honestly, I wouldn’t recommend for—for you if you’re feeling that way. You want something that’s going to lift you up. You want a mint. You want a holy basil. Just kind of—it outlines those manifestations and then herbs to address these manifestations. It talks a bit about mullein again, as well, and about the different base herbs as well. 

Rosalee de la Forêt:

I just am envisioning the scene. I live in Washington State and there’s a cannabis store on every other corner, I swear. When they first became legalized, I was in—afterwards, I was driving through Seattle and there was all these herb shops. I was like, “Oh, my gosh, an herb shop!” and then like, “Oh, that herb.” It’s like over and over and over again, it’s just happening. Anyway, I just—this would be cool to see the zine in all of those cannabis shops just as another opportunity for folks to get to understand plants and smoking [crosstalk]

Lian Bruno:

If you like, cannabis is—that could be its own podcast, honestly. It’s so—there are so many different strains. Depending on the strain and the person and your constitution and how long you’ve been working or consuming the plant can have a huge range of effects and energetic qualities. For some people, it feels good in their body, for some people, it just doesn’t. It can still feel good in your body, but maybe there are times you want to add in some lavender or you want to add in some mint or a holy basil or a skullcap or a passionflower. You don’t have to give it up necessarily, but you could just be a lot more intentional in your approach in your relationship to that specific, very strong plant. 

Rosalee de la Forêt:

Yeah, yeah, thanks for that. Alright, now you can talk about other projects [crosstalk]

Lian Bruno:

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yes, so back to your point about the branding and everything, I’ve had a number of people, other herbalists and people that are in natural body care, early to medium stage reach out and say, “Hey, I love your branding and your website. Would you be my coach?” I have had to say—reluctantly had to say no at the time to all of them because I just did not have the time, but I’ve gotten enough of those requests that I am now just starting to work on a coaching course—a quick coaching online course. I’m still figuring it out. As I said, I’ve kind of been—I picked this hard mode business that’s like—for people that can actually run ads or don’t have to worry about all these regulations, it’s like, “That’s piece of cake. I can help you with that.” I’m working on that. I think I’m going to call it “E-com for Herbalists.” 

Rosalee de la Forêt:

Nice.

Lian Bruno:

And, yeah, but that is TB—the date of that is TBD. It’s—it’s—it’s been in my brain percolating for a while. I bought the domain and that’s about it, but I’m going to be working on that. And then, kind of related to the zine, I actually just got approached by a publisher to write an herbal smoking blends book. 

Rosalee de la Forêt:

Cool! 

Lian Bruno:

I just met with them yesterday. I am still—I’ll take some time to decide, like do I have time or not, but I feel excited about that opportunity. I think I will end up doing it, but I think one way or another that I think all of this knowledge and—all of this knowledge needs to be shared in some form, so I feel excited and honored, honestly, to take the charge on this topic. 

Rosalee de la Forêt:

All of that I can see why people have been approaching you for branding because this is the fifth time I’ve mentioned it, I think, that I love your branding. There’s something about it that just really pulls you in. It’s so simple. It’s so beautiful, but very finesse. I don’t know. There’s just such a great aspect of it. 

Lian Bruno:

Thank you. The logo is a—the skullcap—inspired by skullcap. 

Rosalee de la Forêt:

Nice, nice. I started out early in my herbalist life. I sold at markets—at Farmers Markets, herbal products. I was a terr—I was terrible, so terrible. Oftentimes, I spent more money paying to go to the market than I did for my products. 

Lian Bruno:

Oh, yeah. 

Rosalee de la Forêt:

Looking back on it, I’m just like, “Oh, my God, my branding was so bad!” [crosstalk] Yeah, I’m sure I could have stuck with it, but that ultimately, I don’t think was my calling in the end, anyway, which is why I probably didn’t stick with it. I can just—that really can be such an—I’ll just say “make or break” for some people with products. It’s just like—so I can see people reaching out to you and what a valuable thing to offer that to folks. Where—if people are interested in your zine or they want to get in touch about your future coaching, where is the best way for them to find you and get in touch? 

Lian Bruno:

Yes, so PuffHerbals.com is the brand website. Puff.herbals is the Instagram. I also have a personal Instagram that I recently started. It’s liantheherbalist. 

Rosalee de la Forêt:

Cool.

Lian Bruno:

I have been meaning to have a personal website up for some time now, so I think I own the domain. I just need to get on that, but yeah, you can reach me through the Puff Herbals site. There’s a contact form on there or you could—I don’t—I prefer email over DM on Instagram, but if—if you want to DM me on Instagram, that’s fine as well. 

Rosalee de la Forêt:

Cool. I know you ship off your website. People can buy Puff Herbals. If I remember correctly, you also have a list of retailers on there as well. 

Lian Bruno:

Yes. We’re in—last I checked, I think it’s 30-ish shops. A lot—mostly independently owned apothecaries and boutiques, which I love. Recently got into a—a tobacco smoke shop in Canada, which is very exciting. I know Canadians have been asking for years. I’ve kind of been sitting on that announcement for a while, but yeah, lots of local places. The stockist list is also on PuffHerbals.com. I love when people go and support our retailers. 

Rosalee de la Forêt:

Wonderful! Thanks again, but before I let you go, I have one last question for you. 

Lian Bruno:

Okay.

Rosalee de la Forêt:

And that is, how has herbalism surprised you? 

Lian Bruno:

So, I think—I didn’t expect to—let me tell you a story. When I—when I was first in my apprenticeship, I went in and I had studied biology and I was very sciency. I went in thinking like—I was so on alert or on guard for overly hippie preaching, like pseudoscience bullshit if I’m being perfectly frank. I was like—I was almost kind of like waiting for it to drop. To my surprise, at least the school I went to was very grounded in science, and then the kind of the ritual aspect and what many people may call the “magic aspect” or the “witchy aspect,” just fell in line. It made sense. It’s like setting an intention and being—having this reverence of nature in the cycles and the seasons, and the plants—sitting with the plants like—I was like, this is—I guess I’ve been practicing—I’m a witch! I’ve been practicing magic my whole life and I just kind of never put the two and two together, so that was something that I didn’t expect. I’ve also been very surprised at how being in this—this niche has really allowed me to define my relationship with pleasure, and how I view society’s attitudes toward taking part in pleasure. By pleasure, I don’t just mean sex. In fact, I don’t mean sex at all. I mean allowing yourself to just have a good time, to take part or to partake in things whether they’re psychoactive or not, intoxicating or not. Back to holistic hedonism, it’s like, “Can we partake and not have it be overly indulgent?” and how to be mindful, that in and of itself can be medicinal. It’s like, “Okay, I’m having”—maybe you’re having a—an actual tobacco cigarette. Uh-oh. Maybe you have one with a friend you haven’t seen in 20 years. You’re catching up and you’re having one of those nights that you’ll never forget. It’s like—okay, so what? You have a cigarette, so what? It’s not that big of a deal. Especially now, I hear the younger generations aren’t dancing when they go out because they don’t want to be seen as cringe. It’s like, f*** that! Sorry. I don’t know if I should swear, but I don’t know. It’s like, come on! We’re all going to die. Just dance. You just—you know, so yeah, that—that surprised me as well because when I first went into herbalism in 2014, it was all about—at least on Instagram and stuff, what I would see was all about mindful moment and slow and quiet and you have a candle [unclear] with soft lighting and piano. Yeah, it’s that for sure, and that’s good sometimes, but it can also be fun. You can also be an herbalist and still go to a party. That surprised me as well. That brought up so much of maybe internalized Catholic upbringing things that I had—that I—forced me to confront. 

Rosalee de la Forêt:

I love that sharing on all those different levels too; to just think of you too as being on hippie alert, and now look at you. Love it, full circle. When you’re talking about that aspect too, it just makes me—the plants, everything is relevant from the science to the pleasure, to the healing, to the quietness, to the party—all of it. It’s a fun thing about herbalism that we get to encapsulate all of that. 

Lian Bruno:

Yeah.

Rosalee de la Forêt:

Cheers to dancing and to pleasure herbalism, and to fully being able to express ourselves through this beautiful craft and to the plants as well. 

Lian Bruno:

Yes.

Rosalee de la Forêt:

Thank you so much for being here. It’s been lovely chatting with you. I can’t wait ‘til our paths cross in real person again too. 

Lian Bruno:

I know. Thank you so much for having me.  

Rosalee de la Forêt:

Thanks so much for listening. You can download your illustrated recipe card from today’s episode above this transcript. If you’re not already subscribed, I’d love to have you as part of this herbal community, so I can deliver even more herbal goodies your way.

This podcast is made possible in part by our awesome students. This week’s Student Spotlight is on Pamela Oliver in Georgia.

Pamela has participated in the Herbal Energetics Course, Rooted Medicine Circle, The Healing Power of Teas, the Starter Kit, and the Podcast Circle, bringing both curiosity and dedication to her herbal path. In Rooted Medicine Circle, she made every remedy that we covered—often creating multiple variations—and generously shared her handmade lip balms and body butters with friends and family. She also developed a meaningful relationship with her plant ally, violet, sharing that “medicine will be better if you know and love the plant… We are all in this together.”

In the Herbal Energetics Course, her vivid reflections stood out—especially her description of rosemary clearing “cloudy thoughts” and letting “the sunshine in.” Pamela’s joyful, hands-on approach reminds us that deep connection with plants strengthens both our medicines and our communities.

To honor her contributions, Mountain Rose Herbs is sending Pamela a $50 gift certificate to stock up on their incredible selection of organically and sustainably sourced herbal supplies. Thank you so much to Mountain Rose Herbs, for supporting our amazing students!

And if you’d like to be an herbalist, you can check out my foundational courses.

Okay, you’ve made it to the very end of the show, which means you get your very own gold star and this herbal tidbit. 

Lian has a great blog over at Puff Herbals website and she dives into a lot of herbal smoking topics. She looks at specific herbs like rose, lavender, chamomile. She also even has a list of 50 herbs you can smoke, as well as some smoking blends that look really interesting like pumpkin spice. Anyway, I checked out that list of 50 herbs you can smoke. On there, there were herbs like Angelica, blue vervain, calamus, ginkgo, gotu kola, hawthorn, ginger – that’s part of the pumpkin spice blend there. Anyway, lots of interesting ones. 

I highly recommend checking out her website if you’re interested in the topic of smoking herbs and checking out those blog posts. Also, if you’d like to dive into this even more with Lian, I highly recommend the episode that she did with my buddy, Mason Hutchison, over at HerbRally that’s been a really popular episode and a fun one to watch as well. 

Alright, enjoy. I’ll see you in the next episode.